Podcast category:

General Sexuality

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Episode 232: The Genesis of Gender | Abigail Favale

December 20, 2024

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Episode 228: Discipling Someone Who Wrestles with Gender | Kat LaPrairie

October 25, 2024

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Episode 223: Protecting Our Kids in This Wild World | with Julia Sadusky

May 31, 2024

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Episode 210: How Purity Culture Affected Men with Zachary Wagner

December 1, 2023

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Who Are You? with Andrew Bunt

August 25, 2023

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I am Loved by God with Laurie, Matt, and Steve

April 7, 2023

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What Comes Next? with Matt, Laurie, and Steve

December 18, 2021

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First Steps After Discovering They Cheated with Johnny & Amanda McKenna

December 11, 2021

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The Church Wasn’t Always So Bad at the LGBTQ Conversation with Greg Johnson

December 4, 2021

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What God Has to Say about Our Bodies with Sam Allberry

October 15, 2021

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Helping Kids Navigate a Porn-Saturated World with Josh Glaser & Daniel Weiss

September 17, 2021

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Take Two: Tough Conversations with Friends with Stephanie Thole

August 27, 2021

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Take Two: Seeing Friends as Siblings with Rachel Gilson

August 20, 2021

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Take Two: Broken + Beloved Pastors with Brad Klaver

August 14, 2021

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Take Two: Broken + Beloved Pastors with Johnny and Amanda McKenna

August 6, 2021

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Episode 83 Take Two: Sexuality and Shame with Dan Allender

July 16, 2021

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Take Two: Exploring Our Souls of Shame with Curt Thompson

July 2, 2021

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Helping Kids to Hear God with Dr. Michelle Anthony

May 28, 2021

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Tov vs. Toxicity in the Church with Scot McKnight & Laura Barringer

May 21, 2021

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All the “Easy” Convos: Feminism, Gender Roles, and Complementarianism with Phylicia Masonheimer

April 30, 2021

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The Physical Garden with Sarah Young

February 19, 2021

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Are Women Responsible for Male Lust? with Rachel Joy Welcher

December 18, 2020

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Impossible Marriage Moments: Masculinity & Sexuality with Matt Krieg

October 23, 2020

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A Sexual Minority on Racial Equity with Henry Abuto

October 2, 2020

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Season 3 Recap: Our Favorites and Yours

June 26, 2020

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Pride Month, Healthy Friendships, and Caring for Our LGBT+ Friends–Your Q & A with Matt and Laurie Krieg

June 12, 2020

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Sex, Jesus, and the Conversations the Church Forgot with Mo Isom

August 30, 2019

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Sexuality and Shame with Dr. Dan Allender

May 17, 2019

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Holy Sexuality and the Gospel with Dr. Christopher Yuan

January 25, 2019

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Seven Ways to Navigate a Sexually Shifting Culture with Sam Allberry

October 26, 2018

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Purity Movement or Sexual Integrity? with Jason Soucinek

October 19, 2018

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Sexual Discipleship with Dr. Juli Slattery

April 13, 2018

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Idolatry of Sex

November 11, 2017

Hey, guys!

Here are some of our favorite resources God empowered us to produce (with some awesome folks) this year!

 

10. BLOG Post: Temptation in a Pandemic: 5 Tools I’m Using

The pandemic hit and temptation skyrocketed for many (with things like porn use increasing over 11% globally). How can we stop staring at the temptation and dive into our hearts?

 

9. WEBINAR: Lament 1.0 and Lament 2.0 

We are often asked how to do the lament process we lay out in our Impossible Marriage book or the Journey Well StudyThese two trainings take written things to real life.

 

8. STUDY: Journey Well Study: Explore Your Deepest Needs and How to Meet Them

This one wasn’t created this year, but it continues to impact people wanting to dig deep into Core Needs and more–whatever their versions of brokenness. This study is ideally done with a friend or mentor so you can process together.

 

7. JAVA with Juli: When Staying Married Feels Impossible

This was one of our first interviews for our book. Juli asked the questions many asked us later–but she got the first, raw responses. Hear them here!

 

6.  RELEVANT Magazine: Stop Giving This Relationship Advice

I mean, please? Can we stop? <3

 

5.  THE BANNER: How to Walk Well Alongside LGBT+ People

When I was asked to write this, I asked the editors: “Are you ready for the backlash?” They were. They got some. But people and lives were also deeply impacted. Thanks for caring, guys.

 

4.  HIMH Podcast: Tough Conversations with Friends with Stephanie TholeDefining Stress and Success with John Mark Comer

If we are pro-racial equity, must we also be pro-same-sex marriage? Stephanie Thole helps us out. And let’s do some real talk about many of our drivenness to perform with the real deal: John Mark Comer. These episodes were two of our many favorites on the Hole in My Heart Podcast.

 

3. WORKSHOP: Impossible Marriage Workshop 

After finishing this digital workshop, we hope you are inspired to do two things:

  1. Live the Metaphor: Married people will no longer dully recite “God’s design for marriage,” but will joyfully preach the gospel through their marriages.
  2. Cultivate Oneness: We want every married couple to understand that seeking marital oneness is not seeking better and more frequent sex, rather oneness is holistic union reflecting God’s union with us. Beyond knowing this cognitively, we will give married people the tools they need to cultivate oneness in areas that are thriving, and to increase oneness in areas that need more care.

All of the above is impossible without Jesus Christ. With Him, however? All marital impossibilities are possible. (We are, of course, not speaking of issues related to abuse. Those are justice issues that must be resolved with swift, God-empowered justice.)

 

2. PACIFIC Parable: The Number One Way You Can Advocate for God’s Design for Marriage

Our friends at Pacific Parable rocked this conversational talk. Thanks for letting us be a part of it!

 

1. BOOK: Impossible Marriage

What is the real-life purpose of marriage? What is the real-life purpose of sex in marriage? Can God work through our seemingly impossible marital situations–including addiction, childhood trauma memories, and lack of spousal attraction?

We believe in God’s work through this book so much…so, here it is. Praise Jesus and thank you to the team around us who made it happen.

 

That’s it! We honestly love and put so much into everything we do, and we would love to hear from you:

If you saw us take part in a project this year, what would you throw onto this list as a helpful resource?

 

 

Can we talk about temptation in this pandemic? Anyone else feeling it cranking up right now?

Here we are, either alone or with the same spouse, kids, housemates, or the same someone—every day for the last x number of days— and then we see something else.

Someone else—and we want it. We want them. We want that. It, they, that seems like it will scratch the itch; like it will give us what we need inside.

That pan of brownies. That third glass of wine. That next episode. That extra nap. That show. That video. That next follower. That next deal. That guy. That girl.

That happened to me last week. I didn’t even realize I felt empty until I saw her. Yep. Her. If I am going to struggle with lust, it’s toward women.

People don’t seem to understand this, and I get it. Whenever I share my story, people cock their heads like puppies learning a new command, and say aloud or silently (with a raised eyebrow) one of three things:

  1. The world (generally speaking): “You’re attracted to women? You get a get-out-of-jail free card! Leave your husband. Find a wife. Just…please, stop that mess of a life you’re living—for the love of the real you!”
  2. The dogmatic church (generally speaking): “Yikes. Women don’t struggle with sexual stuff—let alone same-sex sexual stuff! Gross. Ew. Silence. Please, figure that mess out and then come back and talk when you are wrestling with something else.”
  3. The gospel-centered church (generally speaking): “You wrestle with temptation? Me too. Wanna hang out?”

So that we can move on and talk about the actual issue we all face in these days (temptation to get our needs met outside of God), I’m going to briefly address each of these lenses with which someone might view my life.

1. Addressing the world’s lens:

Hi, people in the world. I love you. I really do. And if I hadn’t been discipled like I was in my young 20s, I would agree with you and fight exactly from your perspective—probably on the front lines. However, I was discipled, and learned that the question isn’t “Who are you attracted to?” or “Who do you love?” The question we must ask when it comes to sexuality is, “What is marriage?”

According to the United States? Marriage begins when you sign a document. According to the Bible? Marriage is a one-flesh, covenant union between two opposite sex people for life.

Here’s one of my favorite biblical reasons why (you can find more here):

When the Pharisees question Jesus about adultery in Matthew 19:3-5, Jesus says, “Haven’t you read . . . that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’ And he said, ‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one’?”

In this passage, Jesus links the creation of male and female (“made them male and female” found in Gen. 1:27) to the one-flesh union (“the two will become one flesh” found in Gen. 2:24). So what is a one-flesh union according to Jesus here? It is a uniting of “the two.” Which two? Two humans? Two people who love each other? No—man and wife, male and female. According to the Bible, a one-flesh union (what we call marriage), is a uniting of male and female.

The questions we should be asking of marriage aren’t “Who do you love, and who are you attracted to?” They should be, “Are you called to marriage? Great. (And if not, equally great.) But if so, to which opposite-sex person?”

God called me to marriage, therefore to an opposite-sex person, and that person He chose for me is Matt.

2. Addressing the dogmatic church’s lens:

Hello. I love you, too. I used to be like you—even when I wrestled with my own attractions to women. Call it hypocrisy, denial, whatever…all I know is God helped me to understand sin is sin. Jesus had to die for it all—equally. Are you willing to see my sin wrestling as equally deserving of death as yours? Here’s a good check to see if you do: “If my husband, Matt and I are looking at the same woman with lust in our hearts, who is sinning more?”

3. Addressing the gospel-centered church’s lens:

Hi. Let’s be friends.

Okay, we good? Let’s talk temptation.

So, here I was, and I saw her.

I was slammed—let me tell you—slammed with desire.

What was happening? I like to scale my temptation so I can self-evaluate and share with Matt and other friends. I usually hang out at like 2-4 out of 10 on the temptation scale, but I was at about an 8. That’s really high for me when I’ve been at the 2-4 range for a couple of years.

But I hung out at an 8 for days. I asked God for help, prayed against the enemy, and I tried my best to fight the “right enemy” as I said in the last post, but I was stuck in the “avoidance” wave.

And I was sinking.

Sinking looked like drowning in old habits from “the dark years” of our marriage. The specifics of those years are another story, but the habits primarily looked like isolating from Matt. In tough times I become cordial but icy.

“Laurie,” Matt began when I finally broke the ice and shared what was going on. “I’m okay with you wrestling with temptation, but please don’t run from me emotionally while you’re fighting it.”

Okay. Deal! I’ll try.

So, I attempted to keep my heart open to him.

However, how can we both look away from our spouse–staring at temptation, while also walking toward our spouse–seeking open-hearted union with them?

We can’t walk in two different directions at the same time.

If marriage is a picture of Christ’s love for the church, how can we both look away from Jesus–staring at temptation, while also walking toward Jesus–seeking union with Him?

We cannot walk in two different directions at the same time.

I needed the tools God forged for us during the dark years.

 

  1. Tool 1: Just Talk

 

“Matt?” I said. “I need to tell you what I am feeling.” That’s a tool: Simply opening my mouth and sharing what I’m thinking about. Temptation grows in isolation and silence. (My flesh wants that, but the Spirit in me doesn’t.) So, I opened my mouth.

“I am really struggling right now. Like at an 8.” He knows what that means, and knew I needed to be specific to rip off some shame layers, but I couldn’t be overly graphic.

Why not? I always put myself in Matt’s shoes. What would I want him to share with me if he were attracted to another woman? Hmm: I would want him to share generally—especially when it comes to physical stuff. Otherwise, it would hurt too much.

I shared, but there was more to dig up. Not physical words, but heart ones.

The issue is never just the issue. Sexual desire is more than about sexual desire.

I believe there is heart language in every temptation, and I needed to speak it to get a better grip on this overwhelming temptation.

 

  1. Tool 2: Connect the Temptation to a Core Need

 

Which brings us to the next tool: Below our behaviors are what we call Core Needs. Core Needs are good things God allowed in us before the Fall to feel and drive us to look to Him to fill. We are to look through creation to Him as the Need Meeter of our hearts.

However, most of us take a detour. Instead of looking through gifts to the Giver, we stare at the gifts and say, “Fill me.”

Even though I know Core Needs, I couldn’t name which one felt empty and was driving me to an extra level of temptation toward this woman.

“I need to just say aloud what I am envisioning,” I said. I paused as I pictured it. “I picture her saying, ‘Wow, Laurie, you are so talented. You are so smart, and funny. I like you.’”

That was the fantasy? It’s not all physical? No. The issue is never the issue, guys! We are holistic people.

There’s heart language in the middle of every desire.

But what was I hoping in this scene that this woman would meet in my heart? Well, she’s verbally affirming me. Affirmation. She’s meeting the affirmation Core Need.

Now, I know that a woman won’t actually meet that need in me—permanently. But when you’re drowning in the murky fog of temptation, can you discern that very clearly? I can’t. I mean, we know that third glass of wine or the whole bag of chips won’t bring safety and the real rest we need, but we still can go there. We know the next 10 followers won’t make us feel like we are included and noticed, but some of us still want them. We know scoring that next business deal won’t make us feel like we have permanent purpose, but we can crave it.

We often don’t think about what we are thinking about. We just live. We choose.

We are tempted…and when it comes to “acceptable” God-replacers? (What God calls idols?) We often dive in without thinking.

But I can’t when it comes to a woman. (And shouldn’t with the other things—sin is sin…) But, what’s next?

 

  1. Tool 3: Think Through Why that Core Need is Extra Depleted Right Now

 

So, affirmation is low, but why?

I mean, can’t we just look at COVID and say, “It’s your fault, ya dumb virus and subsequent shelter-in-place!” This is what many of us say when we feel our rest need draining, and then simply grab more chips and wine.

Buuuuut, I can’t. (And shouldn’t with the other idols… They are equal God-replacers if I’m looking to them to fill me instead of God…) I can’t reach out for that woman. That would be violating the covenant metaphor I am living with Matt.

So, I looked deeper. What is it about this time that is highlighting this lack of affirmation? Well, I’m a speaker. I’m not getting the opportunity to teach! I am not being affirmed—in person—and therefore I don’t have the chance to look through my image-bearing audience to the Image who affirms me.

I also am not meeting in-person with friends hardly at all. That’s hard. No affirmation there.

I’m with my kids constantly, and they (rightfully so) take a lot in this season as opposed to give. But, my affirmation need drains with them.

And Matt. This is his weakest place. For our entire dating and marriage, I have been asking him to verbally affirm me. (Side note: He gave me permission to share this.) He does affirm me for a while, but…it is his greatest challenge.

But, again: I have to put myself his shoes. Laurie, what have you been working on your whole marriage? What’s Matt’s greatest Core Need and where you struggle to meet it in the way he wants?

Hmm. The need to be desired through physical connection is the greatest way he experiences love from me and love from God through me.

His greatest need bumps up against my weakest place. My greatest need bumps up against his weakest place.

Sometimes, marriage seems like a big, cosmic joke.

Or is it God’s grace?

If Matt was automatically amazing at affirming me, I might be tempted to let him get in line in the “idol making factory” of my soul. “Thanks for affirming me…more, more. I need more.

Just like God uses my attractions toward women to encourage me to look to Him, God also uses Matt’s lack of ability to automatically affirm me to encourage me to look to Him.

That’s kinda the point my life: To make everything point to Jesus.

The same is true for Matt’s attractions toward other women besides me. It forces Matt to turn to God. The same is true for my lack of auto-desiring him physically. It forces Matt to look to God.

That’s kinda the point point of his life: To make everything point to Jesus.

Our weakest defaults can become strength if they cause us to repeatedly turn to God.

 

  1. Tool 4: Take it to God

 

And that’s what I did.

I took my Bible and journal and slammed my pen on the page. I wrote it all out to God—all that I wanted. I wasn’t lollygagging in the fantasy; I was getting brutally honest before a Holy God who can handle it. This opened up my heart to Jesus. Even though I was praying while feeling the waves of temptation, my heart was not open to God. (We can’t run toward Him while also running away from His best for us. We can’t walk in two different directions at the same time.)

Getting honest with Him cracked it back open. Ahhh. Warmth. He encouraged me there. Affirmed me. “I’m so proud of you, Laurie,” I heard Him say through the Word and in that still, small voice of my heart.

There is no affirmation like God’s.

But truly? Journaling and reading didn’t completely fill the empty place in my heart (and then I subsequently ran back to Matt with open arms). No. But reaching out to God did do something. It gave me a towrope to grip while I crawled back to shore.

 

  1. Tool 5: Invite Friends In

 

If you’re single and reading this? Hopefully, you invited friends in at Tool 1, but if you’re married or single, invite them in again. “This is so hard. Do you see me here? Can you help me?”

A couple of friends did. Again, their words and encouragement didn’t fill up the empty places in my heart completely, but they did do something. They gave me a towrope to grip while I crawled back to shore.

All of these things—talking with Matt, learning the heart word connected with it, reaching out to God, reaching out to friends—combined helped to slowly inch me back to a 4 out of 10 on the wrestling scale. That’s normal for me.

I’m likely going to wrestle intensely again. I’m going to have to figure out what need is extra depleted again, go to Matt, go to friends, and go to Jesus again and again.

Especially in this season. This is a hard season, guys. Our needs can feel extra without fellow image-bearing humans to give us a tangible example of Jesus.

But I’m going to do it. I’m going to go back to God. Again. And again. Not just with this—but shoot. Writing this has made me even more convicted about other idols I run to. (The acceptable types—chips, Netflix, people pleasing, perfectionism—all of them.)

But if we keep reaching out, grabbing that towrope, crawling back to shore, we are going to get stronger, friends. Stronger and more unified with each other and God.

That’s what He wants.

That’s what gives Him glory.

That’s what actually fills those empty places. Slowly. Not often in the ways we want. But always in the ways we need.

Don’t give up.

I won’t either.

 

Do the Next Thing:

 

  1. Consider: Where have you been running? What do you think it will meet in you? What Core Need is that? Why do you think it feels extra right now? How can you take that to God? What is He saying to you? Which friend can you invite in? If you’re married, what have you shared with your spouse?
  2. Sign Up: Our book is coming out Nov 3! (Eek!) Sign up at the bottom of this page to stay informed with it and all other things we are doing. <3